defendant John risdale stands charged
被告约翰里斯代尔被指控
with
murder and it is your duty to decide
谋杀，你有责任决定
whether he is guilty or not the
他是否有罪，
defendant attempted to strangle his wife
被告试图勒死他的妻子，
and thereafter repeatedly struck her in
随后用工业锤反复击打她的脸，
the face with an industrial ized
Hammer crazy so extreme did you see the
疯狂到极点，你看到
DSE in her head that's murder the law
她身上的 DSE 了吗 头脑那是谋杀法律
does provide a partial defense to murder
确实为谋杀提供了部分辩护
described as loss of control I had a
被描述为失去控制我
temper and off smashy I've found it in
发脾气而且打碎了我在我妻子身上发现了它
my wife I bloody H yeah I call please
我血腥H是的我打电话给
John
约翰
Ry can we trust our our justice
Ry我们可以相信我们的司法
system to find out we're reenacting an
系统来找到 我们正在重演一场
entire real murder trial you chose to
真实的谋杀案审判，你选择
use this Hammer yes word for word with
用这把锤子，是的，逐字逐句地用
actors to aim the shots and basically
演员瞄准射击，基本上
bash her brains in she's still shouting
把她的脑袋砸烂，她还在喊叫
and I got to put my hand over her mouth
，我得用手捂住她的嘴，
but I don't know I don't know why I put
但我没有 我不知道为什么我要
my hands down her throat instead but
把手伸进她的喉咙，但
just as in a real Court the jurors are
就像在真正的法庭上一样，陪审员是
Ordinary People oh God I just feel so
普通人哦天啊，我只是觉得很
sorry for I believe that there are two
遗憾我相信
sides to every story I don't care what
每个故事都有两面性我不在乎
she said and in this groundbreaking
她所说的和这个开创性的
experiment there is a key
实验有一个关键的
difference there isn't just one jewelry
区别 不只是一件珠宝，还有
there's two both unaware of each other I
两件彼此都不知道对方的存在，我
wanted to give them a hug is it
想给他们一个拥抱，这是
crocodile tears or not I don't want to
鳄鱼的眼泪吗？我不想
do this
anymore they'll watch the same
再这样做了，他们会看同样的
trial but will they reach the same
审判，但他们会得出同样的
verdict do you find the defendant guilty
判决吗？ 你认为被告有罪
or not guilty of
还是无罪
[Music]
[音乐]
n hi good
n 嗨
morning it's day three of the trial T
早上好这是审判的第三天T
black T playtime morning all
黑色T游戏时间早上
hello well I keep staring at him every
好大家好我一直盯着他
time I keep staring
每次我一直盯着
at these jurors must decide whether the
这些陪审员必须决定是否
defendant John risale is guilty of
被告约翰·里塞尔是否犯有
murder or
谋杀罪，
not I was looking him like you actually
我看着他，你实际上
look like like a decent person but then
看起来像一个正派的人，但
again I've got them back I don't
话又说回来，我
actually know you none of us know you we
其实不认识你，我们都不认识你，我们
not like you can I can sit here right
不喜欢你能吗，我可以 现在就坐在这里
now and tell you that I am the best
告诉你我是
person in the world don't know me I feel
世界上最好的人，不认识我，我
like there is way more to this story
觉得这个故事
than what we're hearing and I stared at
比我们听到的要丰富得多，我盯着
John and I was like you did that you
约翰，就像你那样
like wow it's a lot of weight on our
就像哇
shoulders like we are the ones that are
我们肩上的重担一样
determined if this man has done it or
确定这个人是否做过这件事
not this experiment is really important
这个实验真的很重要
it shines a light on our Criminal
它揭示了我们的刑事
Justice
司法
System we have so little research on
系统我们对陪审团的研究很少
juries this is so crucial for us to gain
这对于我们了解
insight into those dynamics that are
happening between people behind closed
幕后人员之间正在发生的动态至关重要
doors a key question of the experiment
闭门实验的一个关键问题
is whether different juries could reach
是，不同的陪审团是否会对
different verdicts on the exact same
同一案件做出不同的裁决，
case cross the other side of the court
穿过法院的另一边，
house a second jurry both are completely
第二个陪审团双方都完全
unaware of each
不知道对方的存在，
other oh my God is so intense doing
天哪，做珠宝工作太紧张了，
jewelry work it really is it has been
真的 约翰一直
exhausting
很累，他
John hasn't looked at us but what is
没有看我们，但
normal behavior in that situation there
在那种情况下，什么是正常的行为，这
ain't normal behavior he could have had
不是正常的行为，他可能很
nerves anxiety what have you or you know
紧张，焦虑，或者你知道
was he playing us I love currently I
他在玩我们，我目前很喜欢，我
personally feel that he knew what he was
个人觉得他 知道他在
doing it's really shocking me what he
做什么，这真的让我很震惊，他
did today is very crucial for him he
今天所做的对他来说非常重要，他
standing there fighting for the rest of
站在那里为
his life the enormity of that is quite
他的余生而战，这件事的严重性相当
scary he's fighting for the rest of his
可怕，他在为他的余生而战，
life
life the defense case is that Jon lost
辩方的理由是乔恩 失去
control and is therefore guilty of
控制，因此被判
manslaughter not
过失杀人罪，而不是
murder this could mean as little as 2
谋杀罪，这可能意味着最短 2
years in prison rather than a life
年 在监狱里，而不是终身
sentence the concept of loss of control
监禁，失去控制的概念
is I was not fully aware of what I was
是，我没有完全意识到我在
doing uh because of the circumstances in
做什么，因为
which I did it
我当时做这件事的情况，
that loss of control has to be based on
失去控制必须基于
extraordinary provocation so there was
极大的挑衅，所以有
something that happened uh which made
一些事情 发生了什么让
you lose your
你失去了
control if you're able to show those
控制如果你能够证明
evidence of lost control you then have
失去控制的证据那么你
to show a reasonable person would have
必须证明一个理性的人会
done what you did given what you were
根据你当时所经历的情况做你所做的事情
going
through good morning uh we're going to
早上好我们
make a
要做一个
start the defense begin at the very
开始辩护
start of John's relationship with Helen
从约翰和海伦的关系一开始就开始，
Mr risale we know you met Helen that's
里塞尔先生，我们知道你认识海伦，
right she started by simply moving in
没错，她一开始只是搬进来
and you providing accommodation she rang
，你提供住宿，她
me up and said she was in a real in a
打电话给我，说她真的陷入了
real fix and that she got nowhere to
困境，她 没有地方
stay and could she come and stay with me
住，她可以来我家住
for a couple of weeks until she got
几个星期，直到她
herself sorted out you agree to that yes
自己解决问题，你同意吗？是的，
simply to have shelter she came to stay
只是为了有个栖身之所，她来
at my house for a couple I would say for
我家住了
a couple of weeks but whilst she was
几个星期 但当她
with you a relationship
和你在一起的时候，一段关系
began yes
开始了，是的，
following his arrest John was
在他被捕后，约翰被
interviewed four times by the police the
警方问询了四次，
jues have read the transcripts in full
他们已经读过了 全文记录有
one day she seduced me and I was very
一天她引诱了我，我非常
willing I'd always found her attractive
愿意，我一直觉得她很有魅力，
kind of like her wildness and her
就像她的狂野，她
exciting creativity and her personality
令人兴奋的创造力和她的个性，
how much fun she
她是多么有趣，
was no one's more fun to be with than
没有人比海伦更有趣，
Helen but sometimes it's not always
但有时并非如此 总是
helpful it's maybe slightly out of
有帮助的，也许有点
control but again there's a part of my
失控，但同样，我的性格中有一部分吸引人，
personality that appeal to because I'm
因为我
kind of the opposite I'm kind of a more
有点相反，我是一个更有
controlled type of person Helen might
控制力的人，海伦可能会
say it was a bit anal everything
说这有点肛门，一切都很
perfect life I've created for
完美，我 我已经为自己创造了
myself
perfect as well as police interviews a
完美的证据，以及警方的采访，
number of character statements are read
out to the juries throughout the
在整个审判过程中，陪审团会宣读一些性格陈述，
trial one is from Helen's best
其中一个是海伦最好的
friend a couple of years ago she had a a
朋友几年前她
kind of breakdown and uh she went away
崩溃了，呃，她离开了，
and she she stopped contact with
她 停止与
everyone um during that time I didn't
任何人联系，在那段时间里，我
see her at all and I really missed
根本没见过她，我真的很想念
her when she came back she told me about
她，当她回来时，她告诉我关于
约翰·
risdale at that time he seemed to be the
里斯代尔的事，当时他似乎是
person who rescued her he seemed to be
救了她的人，他似乎
really supportive of
真的很支持
her I guess he had extremely strong
我猜他当时就对她有非常强烈的
feelings toward her even
感情
then H that she told me that she didn't
H 她告诉我 她没有
feel the same
同样的感觉，
way I want you to help us with things
我希望你能帮助我们解决
she said to you about you did she
她对你说的关于你的事情，她有没有
describe you
描述过你的
physically there was times that she told
外表，有几次她告诉
me that she found me unattractive but
我，她觉得我没有吸引力，但
the strange thing really was though that
奇怪的是，虽然
should say it and then take it back
应该这么说 然后很快又收回我的话，
again very quickly and not be able to
remember I said here did she ever say
记不住我说的话，她有没有说过
anything now by way of comparing you
什么，把你
with other partners she would often make
和其他合伙人作比较，她经常会
comments about how much she admired
评论说她有多么钦佩
previous Partners in different ways yes
以前的合伙人，是的，
and I would say why you telling me this
我会 说你为什么告诉我这
is it because you is it because you
是因为你是因为你
prefer them and she would say
喜欢他们，她会说是
yes in the beginning herin was very
的，一开始她很
sweet and attentive but as the months
温柔体贴，但几个月
passed she became increasingly
过去了，她变得越来越
manipulative and
有操纵性和
unpleasant Helen would often H insults
令人不快，海伦经常会侮辱
she would often call me fat lazy useless
她经常打电话 我又胖又懒，
in bed not a real man insults I believed
在床上没用，不是真正的男人，我相信这些侮辱
was with the aim of getting a
是为了得到
reaction Helen would have wild mood
回应，海伦的情绪会剧烈
swings being from very sweet to cold and
波动，从非常温柔到冷漠
distant and moving on to explosively
疏远，然后突然变得
angry and Helen would shout and scream
暴怒，海伦会大喊大叫，
throw things around and then often walk
乱扔东西 然后经常
off Helen knew how to drive a person to
走开海伦知道如何让一个人
a complete distraction she was very good
完全分心，她非常
at seeking out what makes a person tick
善于发现一个人的魅力所在
and then kept on pushing those
，然后不断按压他的
buttons did she descend to any
按钮，她有没有
particulars as to what was unattractive
详细指出你身上哪些地方没有吸引力，
about you yes please tell
是的，请告诉
us she'd criticized way I dressed there
我们，她批评了我的穿着方式，也
was similar comments out my hair she
有类似的评论，我的头发，她
uh she told me she thought I was fat
呃，她 告诉我她觉得我很胖
in 2020 your relationship deteriorates
2020 年你们的关系恶化了吗
does
it yes was that a very sudden thing or
是的 这是一件非常突然的事情还是
gradual tailing off no it was really
逐渐变淡 不 这真的
quite
很
sudden Helen wanted it to
突然 海伦想
end how did you feel about being told
结束这一切 当被告知
that she no longer wished to see you I
她不再希望看到你时你有何感想 我
would say really very deeply
会说真的非常
sad uh heartbroken yeah
伤心啊心碎是的该死的
where come from I can't
从哪里来我无法
where come from I can't
stop I don't know where it came from the
停止我不知道它从哪里来的
RO emotions you he was like me in that
RO情绪你他就像我在那个盒子里是的
box
yeah the word that really triggered my
真正触发我
emotion was the word fat he said that
情绪的词是 他说
she had called him fat um and I've been
她叫他胖，嗯，我也曾被
spoken too like that before I've had um
这样说过，
my
我的
insecurities highlighted do you know
不安全感被凸显出来，你知道
what that's the first time I've been
那是我第一次
able to relate and see him as a
能够理解他，把他看作一个
human and that's why I think why was
人吗 这就是为什么我觉得我
just so upset because it like I've being
这么沮丧，因为 我一直在想，
oh you're going to get me
哦，你会让我继续
going and the thing is is the more it
前进的，但事情是，事情越
went on the more it was just me in that
发展，我就越是被困在那个
box yeah and the worst it and then that
盒子里，是的，最糟糕的就是那样，
was it yeah can you relate to him in
是的，你能理解他吗
terms of why he stayed and that yes he
为什么他留下来，是的，他
just wanted to be
只是想要
loved when I was at school I was always
被爱，当我在学校的时候，我总是
called fat I was in in a marriage I'd
被叫胖子，我结婚了，我
lost weight and I was really proud of my
减肥了，我为我的身材感到骄傲
body and well I thought I was really
，嗯，我认为我真的很
proud of my body I was a size 22 wow and
骄傲 我的身体尺寸是 22 哇，
I lost weight and I was a size 10 and I
我减肥了，我只有 10 码，我
stood in front of my husband and I said
站在我丈夫面前，我
to him what do you think of my new
对他说，你觉得我的新身材怎么样
figure and he went your tit sagging stop
，他说你的乳房下垂停止了，
it really
真的
understand the pain that he had and that
明白 他承受着痛苦，
she knew what she was saying that hurt
她知道她说的话伤害了
him she knew what words would hurt him
他，她知道什么话会伤害他，
yeah and she did it on
是的，她是故意这么做的，
purpose I I felt sorry for him and I
我为他感到难过，我
wanted to hug him because I could say he
想拥抱他，因为我可以说他
was a human being and yes he has done a
是一个人 是的，他犯了
crime and I'm not excusing what he done
罪，我不是在为他的行为辩解，
but there was a reasoning behind it she
但这背后有一个原因，她
didn't deserve to die but she was was
不应该死，但她是在自
asking for
找麻烦
it well I couldn't say she's asking for
好吧，我不能说她是自找的，
it no she was got she knew what she was
不，她知道自己在
doing she was winding them up but asking
做什么，她在激怒他们，但
for it is a bit much doesn't mean she
要求有点多，并不意味着她
deserves you're taunting someone you're
值得，你在嘲弄别人，你在
doing that when John was crying I felt
这么做 当约翰哭泣的时候，我
sorry for him I did feel sorry for him
为他感到难过。我确实为他感到难过，
but I wasn't as affected as jod I think
但我没有像乔德那样感动。我想
if you have felt it yourself then it's
如果你自己也感受到了，那么
going to be more emotional for you but
你会更加感动，但
for me it still comes back to
对我来说，它仍然回到
the aggressiveness of the actual attack
实际攻击的攻击性
even if she is saying you're fat you're
即使她说你很胖你
ugly you're this you're that
很丑你是这个你是那个
um walk
嗯走开
away the defense are building their case
辩方正在为约翰·里塞尔的审判建立他们的案例
in the trial of John
risale what makes a good defense in a
什么才是好的辩护
loss of control case it's obviously
失控案件显然
helpful to paint the deceased as someone
有助于将死者描绘成
who has over a period of time the longer
在一段时间内
the better made the life of the
让被告的生活变得
defendant
intolerable the defense will seek to
无法忍受的人，时间越长越好，辩方将试图将
paint this picture of the victim as
受害者的形象描绘成
extremely
极具
provocative some of the narratives
挑衅性的一些叙述
around women can really be played out
围绕女性真的可以在这里发挥作用，
here about you know was she sad was she
你知道她是否伤心，
mad was she
她是否生气
bad after breaking up with John Helen
与约翰分手后，海伦
then restarted their
又重新开始了他们的
relationship 6 months before she was
关系，6 个月前她
killed anden sent me a letter
被杀，安登给我发了一封信，
apologizing for the way things have been
为过去的事情道歉
in the past and now she how she wished
，现在她多么希望
it could all be different between us did
我们之间一切都能有所不同，
you respond I rang her up and she asked
你回复了吗，我打电话 她起来了，她问她
if she could come and see me she came
是否可以来看我，她
over and we talked for a long time was
过来了，我们聊了很长时间，还有
there more than that or not yeah there
没有其他事情，是的，有，是
was yeah and she stayed the night did
的，她留下来过夜，是
she yeah she stayed the night right
的，她留下来过夜，
thereafter did your relationship start
之后你们的关系如何
up again it did yes so let's get through
重新开始吧，是的，所以让我们进入
to the December all right when she's
十二月吧，当她
moved in did you know where you stood
搬进来的时候，你知道你和她站在哪里吗，
with her oh yeah I think I did yeah and
是的，我想我知道，是的，那在
where was that well she was in love with
哪里，她爱上了
me she was able to persuade me that
我，她能够说服
everything was different now and she um
现在一切都不同了，她
she wanted us to be happy together
希望我们在一起幸福，
so you agreed to marry yes did you have
所以你同意结婚，是的，你有
any desire to harm her
没有想过伤害她，
ever
no I truly believed that we could be
没有，我真的相信我们可以
happy
幸福地
together I was like got no reason not to
在一起，我当时觉得没有理由 不要
get involved in she's really exciting
参与她真的很令人兴奋
and I'm single apart from her friend
，我是单身，除了她的朋友
saying she's a crazy person you really
说她是一个疯子 你真的
want to keep your distance she's
要保持距离，她情绪
unstable they said mad but I didn't
不稳定，他们说她疯了，但我不
believe that I said she needs some
相信，我说她需要一些
therapy because she's had a very
治疗，因为她的童年非常
difficult
艰难，
childhood there's a history of drug
abuse in quite an extreme way from the
从
age of 14 she starts sleeping with her
14 岁起，她就开始严重吸毒
boyfriend when she was about 12 which I
她 12 岁左右时与男友发生过关系，我
was considered to be kind of abusive
认为这是一种虐待行为，
she's had a number of abusive
relationships with
Partners in my opinion based on what
根据
she's told me I think she's very very
她告诉我的情况，我认为她与伴侣有过多次虐待关系，我认为她非常
unstable but for some reason I I could
不稳定，但出于某种原因，我
only ever see that goodness I still only
只能 我仍然只能看到善良，
can so even though people triy to point
所以即使人们试图
things out to me about her behavior and
向我指出她的行为和
attitudes I said no she's misunderstood
态度，我说不，她被误解了，
and she's had a very difficult life all
她的生活非常艰难，
she needs is love and some understanding
她所需要的只是爱和一些理解
and maybe the opportunity to have a
，也许有机会拥有一个
slightly more peaceful life instead of a
chaotic childhood that she did
have
after the wedding her attitude towards
婚后她过着更加平静的生活，而不是像以前那样混乱的童年。她对
me changed completely she could be
我的态度完全改变了，
really quite hostile towards me at times
有时她真的会对我充满敌意，
um there was more and more times than it
嗯，我
felt like she viewed me with utter
感觉她越来越多地用完全鄙视的眼光看着我。
contempt she saw a number of general
看到了一些一般
practitioners and psychiatrist did you
医生和精神科医生你
help her with that yes and hope she
帮过她吗？是的，希望她
might resolve whatever problems she had
能解决她遇到的任何问题。
yes Helen would poke and prod you until
是的，海伦会戳你，戳你，直到
she got
她有
reaction it seemed sometimes like she
反应，有时她似乎
enjoyed trying to get people to
喜欢让人们
snap Helen was capable of being
发火海伦
particularly violent with me because she
特别暴力 她
was aware that I would not react or
知道我不会做出任何反应，也不会
really do much to protect myself against
真的做很多事情来保护自己免受
her all this did was allow Helen to
她的伤害，这一切只是让海伦可以
assault me and not fear any
袭击我，而不用担心遭到任何
reprisals uh some in ents involving
报复，一些涉及
Bradley and Helen were reported to the
布拉德利和海伦的事件在 3 日被报告给了
police on the 3rd of December 2016 Helen
警方。 2016 年 12 月，Helen
assaulted him in his home after waiting
在家中殴打了他，当时
for him to return from a night
他正在外面等他回家，
out moments later Helen lunged forward
片刻之后，Helen 冲上前去，用头
and headbutted him causing a nose bed a
撞向他，导致他鼻梁
struggle followed and she broke free and
骨折，随后她奋力挣脱，
began to smash up his flat Helen was
开始砸毁他的公寓，Helen 被
given a police caution for common
警方警告 2017 年 4 月，海伦因这些事件而受到普通
assault and criminal damage in respect
袭击和刑事损害，
of these events in April 2017 Helen
broke into his flat when he was on
在他度假期间闯入了他的公寓，
holiday and stole his laptop she read
偷走了他的笔记本电脑，阅读了
his emails and then sent emails to his
他的电子邮件，然后向他
current girlfriend pretending to be him
现在的女朋友发送电子邮件，假装他
and claiming that he still loved Helen
，声称他仍然爱着他 海伦
this is reported to the police Helen was
据警方报道，海伦在青少年时期被
charged burglary and theft from a
指控入室盗窃和偷窃，
dwelling to which she pleaded
她承认了这些
guilty during her teenage years she was
罪行，她
difficult to disci discipline took up
很难遵守纪律，
with the wrong friends and was violent
与坏朋友交往，
to others she has had a desire for
对别人很暴力，她渴望得到
attention and to be in control and have
关注和 控制并有
power over men she has had sad angry
权力凌驾于男人之上她有过悲伤、愤怒和
evil episodes lasting 2 to three weeks
邪恶的发作，持续 2 至 3 周
she has had Suicidal Thoughts without an
她有过自杀念头，但没有
actual
实际
plan she wanted help with her mood and
计划她
stability from the age of 14 her mood
从 14 岁起就希望得到情绪和稳定性方面的帮助她的情绪
changes within the day from minute to
在一天之内从一分钟之内发生变化 每
minute and hour to hour she occasionally
分钟每小时她偶尔会
steal still and tells me it's funny she
偷偷地告诉我这很有趣她
lacks remorse is impulsive lacks empathy
缺乏悔意是冲动缺乏同情心
and cannot delay goals so in my opinion
并且不能推迟目标所以在我看来
she suffers from cluster B personality
她患有 B 群人格
disorder course that was too much de
障碍当然这太糟糕
man
了
man
wow
哇操
me she is a nutnut though oh
我她是 真是个疯子，哦，该死的
nightmare it's the first time today that
噩梦，这是今天我第一次
I really didn't like Helen and I was
真的不喜欢海伦，我当时就觉得她真是
just like what a and then I had to
个婊子，然后我不得不
remind myself
提醒自己，
like she's still the one who's dead it's
她仍然是那个死去的人，这是
because he's being portrayed as the the
因为他被描绘成
nice guy and she's being betay the
好人，而她却被背叛了，
horrible one because he just killed
坏人，因为他刚刚杀了
someone he's just bombed someone off I
人，他刚刚炸了人，我
actually feel very sorry for him if I'm
真的为他感到非常难过，如果
if I'm trueful I I
我是真的，我会
do oh my God this is actually too much
的，天哪，这实在是太过分了，
we're talking about the deceased and I
我们说 关于死者，我
feel really bad about
对此感到非常难过，
that I don't feel like I need to defend
我觉得我不需要为
her though she went from victim to
她辩护，尽管她从一个受害者变成了另一个
victim until she kind of almost broke
受害者，直到她几乎把
them there has to be a goody and a baddy
他们击垮，故事里必须有好人和坏人，
in a story doesn't it so she has to be a
不是吗 所以她一定是个
good person that got killed by a really
好人，被一个非常
horrible person and I don't yeah I don't
可怕的人杀死了，我不相信，是的，我不
see that I definitely believe that
认为我绝对相信
people have got the power to torment
人们有能力折磨
people to such a degree that they wanted
别人到他们想
to stop I think he was broken as a
停止的程度 我认为他作为一个人已经崩溃了，
person I
我
am trying
to almost fight for the underdog and it
几乎是在为弱势群体而战，这
seems such a weird position because the
似乎是一个很奇怪的立场，因为
underdog is the the person that has done
弱势群体做了
something absolutely
一些非常
horrific I think she was a woman that
可怕的事情，我认为她是一个
was drowning so you've got a woman
溺水的女人，所以你已经 一个女人
navigating through
在生活中摸索
life and she's I don't believe
，她被搞砸了，我不相信
the image that's being painted of Helen
这张照片 那是海伦的画，
crazy Mad unstable it sounds like
疯狂、不稳定，听起来
they're blaming her for the way she was
他们在责怪她，
so what what are you saying that people
所以你在说什么，那些
that have issues that can't handle it
有问题的人无法处理，
that you can just whack them and then
你可以打他们，然后就
that's it it's cool I just that doesn't
这样了，很酷 我只是觉得这
sit well with me I just don't like that
对我来说不太好，我不喜欢
I'm actually so pissed off the way that
they're betraying it's actually really
他们背叛我的方式，我真的很生气，这真的
bothering me like so like so you
让我很困扰，所以你
bothering me like so like so you
can tell that this woman needed help and
可以看出这个女人需要帮助，
like you are happy to just make out that
就像你很高兴只是表明
she was just violent horrible but no I
她只是暴力可怕，但不，我
getting on my bloody n I'm sorry I I
开始流血，我很抱歉，我
don't see him as someone that's a nasty
不认为他是一个令人讨厌的
controlling
控制
animal the more I watched John today and
动物，我今天看约翰越多，
the more I felt his pain I was thinking
我越觉得 他的痛苦，我在想，
my God you you have been through some
我的天啊，你一定经历了一些
serious
严重的
tragic I just think that she's had abuse
悲剧，我只是觉得她从小就受到虐待，
from young age that's ruined her and
这毁了她，让
created her pretty much a monster she's
她变成了一个怪物，她
I feel so em tried to deal with I feel
我觉得我很努力去处理我感觉
so em the way she's tried to deal with
我很 她试图处理
it with the drugs it probably screened
这个问题的方式 药物可能把这
it all off for her not realizing the
一切都屏蔽了，她没有意识到
consequences I've got mascara on I don't
后果我涂了睫毛膏我
want it to
不想让它
run think of something funny dad God I
流下来想一些有趣的事情爸爸上帝我
just feel so sorry for I just can't help
只是觉得很抱歉我只是忍不住
to think it that she went through her
这么想 她
whole life having all these problems
一生都在经历这些问题，
then she just went and got killed
然后她就
because of her problems and that's what
因为她的问题而被杀了，这
it sounds like and it's so
听起来就是这样，这
unfair don't want to do this anymore I
太不公平了，我不想再这样做了，我
want to go home I really don't want to
想回家，我真的不想 想
do this I feel so sad should we just ask
这样做我感觉很难过我们应该
for a new
要求一个新的
case something completely
案例完全
different see you all
不同的东西
tomorrow see you tomorrow girl
明天见明天见女孩
don't think about it too much
不要想太多是的
yeah this trial was having a big effect
这次审判
on me because like I'm feeling emotions
对我影响很大因为就像我一样
I've never ever felt
before in my brain before I go to sleep
在我入睡前，我脑子里充满了从未有过的情感，
that's all I'm thinking of I wake up in
这就是我早上醒来时
the morning it's the first thing I think
想到的第一件事，
of I've put myself in her shoes and I
我把自己置于她的立场，我
just kept thinking like how hard it must
一直在想 就像
have been for her and I kind of related
她一定经历过的艰难，我有点理解
her when I was younger I made choices
她，当我年轻的时候，我做出了一些
that I'm not proud
我不引以为豪的选择。
of I didn't care about anybody like I
不在乎任何人，就像我
was just
一样，是
like yeah little to be honest with
的，小混蛋，老实说，
you I wasn't actually living at home
我 15 岁的时候实际上并没有住在家里，
when I was 15 um I was in a hostal I
嗯，我住在一个旅馆里，我
felt very alone very very very alone I
感到非常孤独，非常非常孤独，我
did get arrested because I um like
确实被捕了，因为 我
robbed someone's phone and I'm not proud
抢了别人的手机，我并不
of it but I justify it only because I
为此感到自豪，但我为之辩解，因为我当时
was on my own
是独自一人
and
，
um
嗯，是
um yeah so like I was on my own and
的，所以我当时是独自一人，
um yeah so like I was on my own and
I there was no like there was no money
我没有钱，
how was I going to eat I was in a hostal
我该怎么办 去吃饭的时候我住在一家旅社
and I didn't have
，我
anything when I got arrested I got let
什么都没有，当我被捕的时候，我
down by the system there was still no
对这个系统感到失望，仍然没有
support literally I just got put in the
支持，实际上我只是被关进了
Cale sent off to wherever and then that
凯尔，被送到了某个地方，然后就
was it done I've got a criminal
这样了 我有犯罪
record who's going first me no me please
记录，谁先去，不，我，拜托，
no no no cuz that's that's must get old
不，不，因为那一定是老了，
just I probably could have become like
我可能已经变得像
Helen I was just lucky and fortunate
海伦了，我很幸运，很幸运，
that when I feel pregnant with my son my
当我怀上我的儿子时，我的
whole mindset just changed and I was
整个心态就改变了， 我
like a completely not a different
感觉自己完全不是另一个
person how lucky are you all of us have
人，你们有多幸运，我们都有
the potential to have a bit of Helen in
潜力拥有一点 海伦在
us but we're all just lucky that our
我们心中，但我们都很幸运，我们的
lives led us the way it
生活引领我们走向现在的样子，
did yeah
boy
how is you guys today all right good
是的，男孩 [音乐] [音乐] 你们今天好吗，
yeah I'm good good after yesterday it
好吧，我很好，很好，昨天之后，我
was so
emotional Ricky how are you I'm fine you
情绪很激动，瑞奇怎么样 你我很好
okay yeah you're all right yeah I'm good
你还好吗你没事是的我很好是的
yeah I am testday it was really so
我是考试日这真是太
emotional I'm so so emotional but I'm
情绪化了我真的太情绪化了但我
going to try not to let my emotions get
会试着不让情绪控制
the better of
me I think we will come to a verdict
我 我认为我们会做出裁决，
because I think we're a group that
因为我认为我们是一个
respect each other enough to somehow
足够尊重彼此的群体，能够以某种方式
come to an answer and agree on it but I
找到答案并达成一致，但我
don't want to agree to man really don't
不想同意，伙计，真的不
want to like Rick's really set in the
想像 Rick 那样
manaugh and I don't and I genuinely
don't think I'm really set in
不认为我真的有
murder let's
谋杀的打算，
go
the defense now turned to an event that
现在辩方转向了
occurred in the weeks before the
谋杀案发生前几周发生的一起事件，
murder about 10 days before the Fatal
大约在致命事件发生前 10 天，
event when John brought items into the
约翰带来了 他把一些物品带进
workshop he had some bags he had some
车间，他有一些袋子，他有一些
knives wrapped up in a cloth or
用布包着的刀子，或者
something like that that's correct and
类似的东西，这是正确的
he told you that he was once again
他告诉你，他再次
worried about Helen yes that she had
担心海伦，是的，她
expressed thoughts of harming
表达了伤害
herself and killing herself
自己和自杀的想法，
yes and he wanted to put the knives out
是的，他想把刀子拿开，
of the way so she couldn't access them
这样她就拿不到它们了
[Laughter]
[笑声]
yes hav slept for three three nights cuz
是的 我已经睡了三个晚上了，因为
this H's Behavior and the worry is she
这个 H 的行为，令人担心的是她
screamed in the night she having
在晚上尖叫，她做了
horrible nightmares they should be awake
可怕的噩梦，他们应该醒来
and we we talk for a long time about the
，我们谈论了
hor horrible things going through her
她脑子里那些可怕的事情很长时间，
head she was kind of kind of like
她有点 就像
thinking about killing herself and she
想过自杀，那天她
was really seriously thinking about
真的认真考虑过
doing it that day I was like right well
自杀，我当时就想，好吧，
I got tore I said shut the furnace down
我被撕裂了，我说关掉炉子，
I'm taking to the doctor I don't want
我要去看医生，我不希望
anything bad to happen to her no she had
她发生任何不好的事情，不，她 有
a like a lot of conversation about she
很多关于她
didn't want to be
不想
alive how she'd be better
活着的话题，她说她会过得
off I said like why why can't you see it
更好，我说为什么你不能反过来看这个问题，
the other way around because not only
因为她不仅
would like your children your mom your
想要你的孩子，你的妈妈，你的
brothers but I would be heartbroken
兄弟，而且 我会很伤心，
that's that's why I'm taking this so
所以我才这么认真地对待这件事，
serious and we've got to go to the
我们 今天去看
doctors
医生
today and did you encourage her to seek
，你鼓励她
medical help on this day yeah I
在这一天寻求医疗帮助吗？是的，我
suggested to her would it be a good idea
向她建议，和医生谈谈是个好主意吗？
to talk to the doctor and she said she
她说她
very much wanted to do that I rang up
非常想这样做，我打电话
and got her an emergency an appointment
让她 一个紧急的预约，
and we were with the doctor like an hour
我们和医生在一个
and a half
半小时
later all right here you are on the way
后，好吧，你在
Wednesday hiding things from her
星期三的路上，隐藏了她的
medication and weapons in the form of
药物和刀具形式的武器，
knives yes and taking her to the local
是的，带她去当地的
practitioner were you wanting her to be
医生，你想让她
harmed or to allow her to harm herself
受到伤害或允许她
in any way
以任何方式伤害自己
no quite the opposite you see within
不，恰恰相反，你看，在
days of this event you have conducted
这件事发生后的几天内，你就已经做出了
yourself to cause her
导致她
demise yes
死亡的行为是的，
I thought the world of John he was able
我认为约翰的世界他能
to do what I couldn't do she felt very
做到我做不到的事 她感到他非常
loved and supported and accepted by
爱她、支持她、接受
him I felt she had a totally
她，我觉得她有一个完全
unconditional
无条件的
loving
爱她、
nurturing and supportive husband
养育她、支持她的丈夫。
I I last saw Helen on the 28th of
我最后一次见到海伦是在
May and she said a new being married was
5 月 28 日，她说新婚生活会很
going to be hard as John and I have our
艰难，因为约翰和我有
own ways of doing things and have to
自己的孩子 做事的方式，必须
learn to live together I didn't think it
学会共处，我没想到
would be this hard it's very
会这么难，非常
hard and sometimes I think I hate
难， 有时我觉得我恨
him it's hard living with a
他，和圣人一起生活很难，
saint
what happened came such a
发生的事情让我
shock I trusted in
震惊，我相信
John she was in good
约翰，她得到了很好的照顾，
hands he understood her needs he he
他理解她的需要，他
nurtured
照顾
her he genuinely thought he could help
她，他真诚地认为他可以帮助
her he actually thought that he came in
她，他真的认为他
with a bag of knives because she was
带着一袋刀进来，因为她
saying she was going to self har yeah I
说她要自残，是的，我
have no doubt that he loved her but like
毫不怀疑他爱她，但就像
was mentally abused so years years I
被精神虐待一样，所以多年来我
think he was sometimes that's worse than
认为他有时比
physical abuse no it is worse than
身体虐待更糟糕，不，这比身体虐待更糟糕
physical mental abuse is worth
精神虐待值得
controlling the gas line I think he was
控制天然气管道，我认为他为
proud that she would stay with him you
她能和他在一起而感到自豪，你
know I think he wanted to keep yeah
知道，我认为他想留下来，是的，
because she was a 10 and he was a
因为她是 10 分，而他是
seven I have a lot more sympathy for
7 分，我现在对约翰更加同情，
John now you know she was the one
你知道她 是
who was being really abusive but to
真正虐待他人的人，但对于
someone who's been abusive towards their
虐待伴侣的人来说，
partner that person is insecure and
这个人没有安全感，所以
that's why they're being
他们才会
abusive so she was sabotaging the
虐待，所以她在破坏这段
relationship cuz I think she did not
关系，因为我觉得她觉得自己不
feel
lovable and I don't think she liked men
值得爱，我不认为她 喜欢男人
because she had been abused since she
是因为她从那以后就一直受到虐待 她当时
was 12 so maybe she retaliated by always
12 岁，所以也许她总是
trying to bring down you know I feel
试图贬低她，以此来报复。你知道，我觉得
like what we just heard is Tipp me a
我们刚刚听到的是，
little bit more towards man s
now when you're blinded by love and you
现在，当你被爱情蒙蔽了双眼，你
can see there suffering struggling
可以看到他们遭受痛苦，挣扎着。
you're going to want to keep trying
想要继续尝试，
you're not going to see signs until it's
你不会看到任何迹象，直到
too late I know what it's like to love
为时已晚，我知道爱一个人是什么样的感觉，
somebody that much to have unconditional
love for somebody like that is very
对一个人无条件的爱是非常
rare often it gets taken for for granted
罕见的，通常被认为是理所当然的，
and doesn't always have a happy ending
而且
if he was a man that wanted the best for
如果他是一个男人，希望
this for this woman and some people you
这个女人过得好，那么总会有一个圆满的结局，有些人你
can't help and she didn't want to be
帮不了，她也不想被
helped and it just got worse and worse
帮助，情况变得越来越
and worse to the point where I think he
糟，直到我 我认为他
just did something
只是做了一些
outrageous I'm worried about him going
离谱的事情，我很担心他
away for so long and being away from
离开这么久，远离
from his kids because I can relate as I
他的孩子，因为我可以理解，因为我
haven't seen my daughter since
从 2020 年起就没见过我的女儿，
2020 there was a breakdown in
relationship after my daughter was B I
我女儿
was restricted from seeing my child for
出生后，我们的关系就破裂了。 一段时间内被禁止见我的孩子
periods of time and I decided that I'm
，我决定
going to take it to
上
court I'm going to fight for my child
法庭 我要为我的孩子而战，
because my child needs a dad John did
因为我的孩子需要一个父亲。约翰犯下了
the actual crime I don't think he
真正的罪行，我认为他不
deserved murder and I don't think he
应该被谋杀，我也不认为他
should be away from his kids for that
应该离开他的孩子那么
length of time
长时间，
basically the defense now come to The
基本上辩方现在来了
Killing
itself she decided to decorate and this
她决定装饰一下，
this is when it sounds like the actual
这听起来就像
argument we had today was so stupid but
我们今天的争论很愚蠢，
but some time ago she decided to
但前段时间她决定
decorate the
装饰一下
toilet and I've got shelves with loads
厕所，我的架子上摆满了
of little sculptures and objects and
小雕塑、物品和
things that matter to me that I've
东西 对我来说很重要的东西，我已经
collected up over a period of time and
收集了一段时间了，而
she kind of like just scooped them all
她就像把它们都舀
up and shoved them in a
起来塞进一个
box and I've been really upset about it
盒子里，我对此感到非常沮丧
and I said said if when you'd asked me I
，我说如果当你问我 我本
could have come and packed them away
可以过来把它们
really carefully for you I can see that
小心地收拾好，我知道
you need to decorate the house to try
你需要装饰房子，试着把
and make it yours she started saying
它变成你的房子，她开始说
this isn't my house this is all your
这不是我的房子，这都是你的
house all your
房子，所有你的
things and I said why don't know what
东西，我说为什么不 我不知道
more I can do I marry you I give you
我还能做什么，我娶了你，我把我拥有的一切都给了你，
everything I have I sign over half my
我把我一半的
business to you I pretty much let you do
生意都签给了你，我基本上让你做
whatever you want but I don't think you
任何你想做的事 但我不认为你
care about other people's possessions
关心别人的财产
and sometimes it's really really
，有时这真的很
offensive end up having this this
冒犯，最终导致了这么
massive R and she started throwing
大的R，她开始
things at me throwing dishes and plates
向我扔东西，扔盘子、盘子
and cups and I said this is even worse
和杯子，我说这更糟糕，
you're like you're like smashing things
你就像你一样 就像在那里砸东西一样
up there
hours so where did you go and I think I
小时所以你去哪儿了，我想我
go well I struggled to remember exactly
去得很好我很难记住
where I went because I was going in the
我到底去了哪里因为我
house all day checking on the furnace
整天都在屋子里检查炉子
coming in for different reasons going
因为不同的原因
back towards the furnace so there was
回来 朝着炉子，所以
chewing and fr during the day yeah all
白天有咀嚼和 fr，是
right she's really angry and I said to
的，好吧，她真的很生气，我对
her look like one of us needs to work
她说，看起来我们其中一个人需要工作，
I'm going out outside so I'm at the back
我要出去，所以我在
door and she throws a cup at me which
后门，她扔了一个杯子
smashes and I think I kind of like stood
up and said like
oi and she throws another cup towards me
她朝我扔了另一个杯子，
which goes bounces off the back door and
杯子从后门弹了出来，
goes outside and
smashes did you go away or go back into
摔碎了，
the house so I turn around and go back
我转过身来 然后
in again and said I'm really sorry I
又回去说我真的很抱歉我
called you selfish and I said it's fine
说你自私 我说
for us to move all the
我们可以把所有的
pictures and I say to her I'm quite
照片都搬走，我对她说我很
happy to move all my records and it's
乐意搬走我所有的唱片，就在
when I said my that she really kind of
我说“我愿意”的时候，她突然
exploded into
尖叫起来
screaming and saying I need I knew it
，说“我需要”，我知道这
was all yours and none of it mine I
一切都是 你的，都不是我的，我
realized I've really said the wrong
意识到我真的说错了
thing it's it's like she really really
话，就像她
changed in that moment and became
在那一刻真的变了，变得很
wied just smashing things and shouting
暴躁，只是打砸东西，
shouting abuse at me what sort of things
对我大喊大叫，辱骂
was she shouting at you well swear words
她对你喊了什么脏话
but it wasn't like coherent resentments
但那并不像是连贯的怨恨，
it was just like kind of abuse which
那只是一种辱骂，
generated in thenl interview I described
在采访中我将
it as bile just hatred towards me
其描述为对我的怨恨，
eventually it was not even making sense
最终它甚至不再有意义了，
anymore the words were nonsense words
这些词都是无意义的，
gone from being recognizable swear words
不再是可识别的脏话，
abuse resentments that I could
辱骂，怨恨 我可以
understand to just been hatred and
理解只是仇恨和
throwing and smashing I just wanted to
扔东西和砸东西我只是想
stop her from shouting at me anymore was
阻止她对我大喊大叫
that when you grabbed hold of her so
当你抓住她所以
she's raising these things up above her
她把这些东西举过头顶
head to throw at me and still shouting
扔向我并且仍然大喊大叫
at me and as I mve forward towards her
当我向前走去
to stop her I I slipped and fell
阻止她时，我滑倒了，
obviously as I started to move I must
显然，当我开始移动时，我
have sort of grabbed hold of her and she
抓住了她，她
again I'm not exactly sure where or how
又撞到了她，我不知道在哪里或
and sort of crashed into her and she
怎么撞到了她， 她
looked really pleased so
看起来真的很高兴，
so we end up on the floor and Helen's
所以我们最后躺在地板上，海伦
lying on her back on the floor and I'm
仰面躺在地板上，我压
on top of her and she's still shouting
在她身上，她还在喊叫
but I don't know I I don't know why I
但我不知道我 我不知道为什么我会
put my hands around her throat
用手捂住她的喉咙，
instead no I know if I wanted her to
不，我知道如果我想让她
shut up I should have put my hand over
闭嘴，我应该用手捂住
her mouth but something snapped at that
她的嘴，但就在那时，突然有什么东西断了，
point something something else happened
发生了其他事情
and I don't understand John's defense to
，我不明白约翰的辩护
the charge of murder is that he suffered
谋杀罪的指控是他
a loss of control she looked directly at
失去了控制，她直视着
me she wasn't
我，她没有
frightened I was frightened I
害怕，我很害怕，我
think how long were you holding your
想你抱住脖子多久了，
neck I don't I don't
我不知道，我不
know that's really the point at which
知道，这真的是
all kind of comes a bit of a blur does
一切都变得有点模糊，
she lose
她失去
Consciousness I'm not
意识了吗？我
sure I don't I don't know what happened
不确定，我不知道 不知道她发生了什么事，
to her it's almost like it
几乎就像
was um there's like a
是，嗯，
fog over memory of the images that I
记忆中笼罩着一层雾，我的记忆中真的
have literally like
像
foggy yeah I think theor the color of
雾一样，是的，我想，或者
her face
她的脸色
changed in what
发生了变化，有点像
way kind of
went
Bluey kind
蓝色
of kind of purple kind of color
紫色的那种颜色，
did you understand what was
你知道
happening no I knew that I didn't want
发生了什么吗，不，我知道我不想这样
to be doing
做，
it we know Mr risale that she was struck
我们知道里塞尔先生，她被
with a
锤子击中了，
hammer do you remember doing that do I
你还记得这样做吗，我
can't remember I can remember the color
不记得了，我记得颜色
of her face haven't changed and I
她的脸没有改变，我
remember standing up and picking the
记得站起来拿起
hammer
锤子
up do you remember where it was these
你记得它在哪里这些
are not these are not clear this is not
不是这些不清楚这不再是
kind of a a clear memory anymore but
一个清晰的记忆，但
what I can remember is I have an image
我能记得的是，我有一个形象
of me on top of her with my hands around
我压在她身上，双手掐住
her throat I have an image of standing
她的喉咙，我脑海里浮现出我站起来的画面，我
up I have an image of picking the hammer
up off the table do you recall striking
脑海里浮现出我拿起桌上的锤子，你还记得
her with
用
it I could remember hearing her once in
the face with a
hammer though we know it was three times
锤子打她吗，我记得有一次她用锤子打她的脸 我们知道这是三次，
it will be suggested no doubt that when
毫无疑问，当
you struck her you wanted to kill
你打她的时候，你想杀了
her is that what you were
她，这就是你在
thinking don't remember I don't remember
想什么，不记得了，我 不记得你
thinking anything did you have any
想过什么，你有没有
thoughts of trying to run away or get
想过逃跑，或者
away no or blame someone else or pretend
逃避，或者责怪别人，或者假装
it wasn't you in any way shape or form
不是你，
no
不管怎样，
I just want you to reflect for a moment
我只是想让你反思一下，
Helen was the lady who only 3 months
海伦是 这位女士，
previously you had married was there
你三个月前才结婚，
anything within you that wanted her to
你内心里是否有任何想要
be harmed at all I can't ever remember
伤害她的想法？我记不起
my wanting to
我想要伤害
her have you tried to understand what
她，你有没有尝试去理解
happened that
那天发生了什么？
day I don't understand it at
我完全不明白
all it's what I've been able to think
。 我已经
about for about 6 months now
思考了大约 6 个月了，
it's the first thing I think about when
这是我早上醒来时想到的第一件事，
I wake up in the morning it's the last
也是
thing I think about when I go to sleep I
我入睡时想到的最后一件事，我
wake up every night thinking about it I
每天晚上醒来都会想到这件事，我
think about it all day I don't I don't
认为 一整天我都不
understand what
知道
happened I never would have believed I
发生了什么，我从来不相信我
was capable of doing this least of all
有能力
to the woman that I
对我所
loved sorry we're we're going to have a
爱的女人做这样的事，对不起，我们要
break that's that's quite obvious
休息一下了 这是很明显的
Jesus that was intense was it it was
耶稣，这太强烈了，这是
right was
对的，
it I feel really sorry for it well
我真的很抱歉
they're both victims they're both
他们都是受害者，他们都是
victims of each other yeah of each other
彼此的受害者，是的，
they it's a classic toxic relationship
这是典型的有毒关系，
isn't it I mean it seems to me like loss
不是吗？我的意思是，在我看来，他失去了
of control was he so minded we could
控制，他太在意了，我们
have actually not realized what he was
可能真的没有意识到他在做什么
doing this is a man that is totally out
这样做的人完全
of character getting a hammer and
不符合他的性格，拿着锤子
smashing someone's head
砸别人的头
in I can see so much from Mor proper
我从莫尔身上看到了太多正确的
raar emotion yeah I was trying not to
咆哮情绪，是的，我试着
cry I found it really obsessing well
不哭，我发现这真的很痴迷，
that's the first time we've had that
这是我们第一次 有过
kind of emotion it made me feel like
那种情感，这让我觉得
he's really not a bad
他真的不是一个坏人
person the whole jury that kind of being
整个陪审团那种作为
SED he had an unconditional love for her
SED他对她有无条件的爱
he
他
did liking John shouldn't really have
喜欢约翰不应该真的有
much weight on it his character is not
太多的重量在他的 角色
really that relevant to the crime he
与他所犯下的罪行并没有太大关系
did I the reason why I can relate to him
我之所以能如此理解他
so much is because I love how he loves
是因为我喜欢他的爱是的，
yeah love love I don't love enough to to
爱爱我爱得还不足以
kill but I love how he loves I he
杀人但我喜欢他的爱我他
luckily none of us have got to that
很幸运 我们中没有人达到过这
point but unfortunately he
一点，但不幸的是，
I just think he wanted to shut her up
我只是认为他 出于沮丧，他想让她闭嘴，
out of frustration he just took it too
他做得太
far I think he was really angry and he
过分了，我认为他真的很生气，他
wanted to hurt her badly but I don't
想伤害她，但我不
think he to kill her the fact is he
认为他会杀了她，事实上他
brutally murdered his wife so after
残忍地谋杀了他的妻子，所以
today is everybody man slaughter yeah
今天之后每个人都 人屠杀是的，
yeah
yes I I feel like I right I've been
是的，我觉得我是对的，我一直在
trying to tell everyone not to be so
试图告诉大家不要那么
judgmental and appeal to your Human Side
挑剔，多诉诸你的人性，
a little bit more to have people finally
最终让人们
in my corner
站在我这边
feels good to be
感觉很好，
R the whole room going against you is
整个房间都在反对 你
definitely frustrating you know but man
肯定很沮丧，你知道，但
slaughter that isn't Justice for Helen
杀人案对海伦来说不是正义，对
for
me he's had plates hled at him and
我来说，他被人用盘子砸伤，
caused him to be very that's why I can
导致他非常痛苦，所以我能
understand the pushing and the
理解推搡和
Strangling I totally understand that but
勒死他，我完全理解，但
what I can't get around my head the fact
我 我无法理解
that he got up why pick up the hammer
他站起来为什么拿起锤子，
there was so many other things you could
你可以拿起很多其他的东西，
have picked up why that because because
为什么，因为
obviously you hit something with a
很明显你用锤子敲东西，
hammer that's a natural thing you just
这是很自然的事情，你只要把
pick it up but not a head but not ahead
它捡起来就可以了 不是头而是前面，
that's different I Overkill suggests to
这是不同的，我 Overkill 暗示
me the loss of control I can't I can't
我失去控制 我不能，我
see that bit I can't see that surely he
看不出这一点，我看不出他肯定
just lost control right and and I just
只是失去了控制，对吧，我只是
don't understand why people can't sit if
不明白为什么人们不能坐下来，如果
you can prove that moment and that loss
你能证明那一刻和失去
of control then everything else is the
控制，那么一切 除此之外，
context around it that's the key bit we
周围的环境也是关键，我们
have to get that right cuz if we don't
必须正确处理这个问题，因为如果我们
get that right we'll make the wrong
做不到这一点，我们就会做出错误的
decision I feel sorry for the guy really
决定，我为这个人感到遗憾，真的
really
sorry everybody's got their own opinions
遗憾，每个人都有自己的观点，
but I've been on the
但我已经 一直
fence the thing I find fascinating is
犹豫不决，我觉得很有趣的是，
it's not cold car between murder and
它不是冷车，在谋杀和
manslaughter eight years ago my wife and
过失杀人之间，八年前，我和我的妻子
I
we had an
发生了
argument my wife lost
争吵，我的妻子把
it on my wrists I've got two tattoos one
它弄丢在我的手腕上，我有两个纹身，一个
says Amanda which is my wife's name and
写着阿曼达，这是 我妻子的名字，
the second one is smelly which is my
第二个是臭的，这是我
wife's nickname we went to Soho one day
妻子的昵称，我们有一天去苏荷区
had two drinks and then three and next
喝了两杯，然后又喝了三杯，
door was a tattoo
隔壁是
parlor for Gary Helen's Behavior has
加里·海伦的纹身店，他的行为让
reminded him of his own I've been a
他想起了他自己的，我一直是个
difficult partner I'm going back
难相处的伴侣 我
probably about four or five years I used
大概要回想一下四五年前我
to be like Helen I used to cause an
海伦，我以前常常
argument just for the sake of it but you
为了争吵而争吵，但你
can only push people so far before they
只能把人逼到一定程度，否则他们就会
break do you want a drink darling yes I
崩溃。你想喝点什么吗亲爱的，是的，
thank you very much we' had a bad
非常感谢。我们吵得很厉害
argument and he had pushed an awful lot
，他逼迫我们
of buttons I was right yeah the
按钮我是对的混蛋是的
really was that was horrible to you yeah
真的是这对你来说太可怕了是的
getting around it i' got in the car and
绕过它我上了车，
I thought f you my focus was on I'm just
我想f你我的注意力集中在我只是
going to hit
想打
you I just remember that you've hit the
你我只记得你打了
Bonnet of the car and I just stopped and
我停下车，
got out the car and you laying on that
走出汽车，你躺在地板上，
floor with your foot all mangled and
脚被弄伤了，
your leg all in the wrong direction and
腿也扭到了错误的方向，我的
the emotions just fell out of
情绪一下子消失了，
me I've I
just no it's the emotion coming out we
只是不知道，是情绪在作祟 我们
don't like you say we don't talk about
不喜欢你说我们不
that very
经常谈论这
often something about it but I just
件事，但我只是
stepped out of
走出了
myself and it it just wasn't me doing
自我，这不是我做的
these things as such so I I think you
这些事情，所以我认为
get to the point where you're so angry
你已经到了 我很生气，
so
frustrated everything just sort of stops
沮丧，一切都停下
and goes probably in slow
来，可能像
motion and then all of a sudden reality
慢动作一样，然后突然间现实
hits back again and you're back in the
又回来了， 你回到
room and oh my god what have I
房间，天哪，我
done and that's the first time you said
做了什么，这是你第一次
that yeah to me and I realized how easy
对我说是的，我意识到爆炸是多么容易
it is to just
explode
snap and within seconds it could have
，几秒钟内，它可能会
been a totally different
是一个完全不同的
story you were the John and now is a
故事，你 约翰现在是
Helen but it then it gave again I wasn't
海伦，但后来它又给了我
there when John did it and I wasn't in
约翰做那事的时候我不在场，我也不在
John's mind so I can't say if he was in
他的脑海里，所以我不能说
control or wasn't in control when he
他杀人的时候是否在控制之中
killed
her it's that doubt you have to wait for
她就是那个怀疑你必须等待
all the
所有的
evidence cheers cheers
证据欢呼欢呼
darling the jewy room is quite tense uh
亲爱的犹太人的房间现在相当紧张
right now because there is definitely an
因为肯定
opportunity for this to go the wrong
有机会让这件事朝着错误的
way if I feel passionately about
方向发展如果我对
something I will fight for it and I will
某件事充满热情我会为之奋斗我 我会
fight hard and if I feel that that his
努力抗争，如果我觉得对他的
sentence should be based on man's
判决应该基于
Slaughter and not murder I'm going to
杀人罪而不是谋杀罪，我会
fight for
为之而战，
that which means it's going to get
这意味着它会变得
Lively you chose to use this
热闹，你选择使用这个
Hammer yes the prosecution
锤子，是的，检方
cross-examines John you remember hitting
进行盘问 约翰，你记得打过
I don't understand what happened you do
我不明白发生了什么事
remember hitting her there's too many
记得打她有太多
blanks because he's just like I don't
空白因为他就像我不
remember I don't trust
记得我不相信
anything we have come to the crucial
任何事情我们已经到了关键
part and I'm afraid you do have to
部分我担心你必须
answer these
回答这些
questions
问题
[Applause]
[掌声 ]